Alice's Antipathy

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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Renadt on Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:19 pm

True, Kanna, but that is toward the family. We really haven't seen her too much outside of that environ except for the last story arc. Diana is also the baby, and gets away with more than her fair share because of it, but we really cannot judge too harshly on Diana since we don't have all that much info to go on. We know Alice is shallow thinking. We know Alice sees Diana as more of an enemy than rival. And we see that she will do something that will hurt her in the long run. Alice will try to make a move on Louis, and it will come down hard on her. It may even shatter her own image, with luck.
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Page 418.1

Post  Ellen-Natalie on Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:48 pm



Busy week while finalizing contracts for FanExpo in Dallas, but I didn't want to put up a comic detour - so here's the first half of page 418
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Renadt on Fri May 01, 2015 12:15 am

And it's already happening.
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  kanna172003 on Fri May 01, 2015 8:41 pm

Renadt wrote:True, Kanna, but that is toward the family. We really haven't seen her too much outside of that environ except for the last story arc. Diana is also the baby, and gets away with more than her fair share because of it, but we really cannot judge too harshly on Diana since we don't have all that much info to go on. We know Alice is shallow thinking. We know Alice sees Diana as more of an enemy than rival. And we see that she will do something that will hurt her in the long run. Alice will try to make a move on Louis, and it will come down hard on her. It may even shatter her own image, with luck.

Diana has already proven herself to be a hypocrite by calling Alice and her friends "soulless fashion clones" for wearing the same shoes and yet she is attempting to sell copies of her outfits. I admit Alice is not as good and noble as she thinks she is but Diana is every bit as bad.
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Renadt on Fri May 01, 2015 8:50 pm

Not copies, per se. Diana was willing to make multiple versions of her works, but work to alter them for the customer. That is how fashion and supply/demand work. Diana could make 20 different shawls, each one unique to the person. And she only reacted to what Alice and her cronies were calling her first. http://furryexperience.smackjeeves.com/comics/1865190/page-319/ and http://furryexperience.smackjeeves.com/comics/1865190/page-320/ for the remarks. They were making fun of her uniqueness, so she chose the accurate retort.
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  kanna172003 on Fri May 01, 2015 8:56 pm

Renadt wrote:Not copies, per se. Diana was willing to make multiple versions of her works, but work to alter them for the customer. That is how fashion and supply/demand work. Diana could make 20 different shawls, each one unique to the person. And she only reacted to what Alice and her cronies were calling her first. http://furryexperience.smackjeeves.com/comics/1865190/page-319/ and http://furryexperience.smackjeeves.com/comics/1865190/page-320/ for the remarks. They were making fun of her uniqueness, so she chose the accurate retort.

How do you know that Diana hasn't made a point to make fun of Alice's clothes in the past? In fact, on page 414, it looks like Diana is doing just that. I don't think there is a good guy or bad guy here, just two ordinary high school girls who both think they are the heroine and the other is the villain. Neither of them are blameless, nor completely at fault. I'm not placing all the blame on Diana, I'm just saying she is not necessarily the good guy of the situation. She's displayed her fair share of pettiness as well. Louis has the right idea in that he does not see either as bad.
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Mr Ed on Sat May 02, 2015 12:54 am

"...with kind looks and smiles?"
And big puppy-dog eyes?
Laughing

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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Renadt on Sat May 02, 2015 7:33 am

We don't really know if that is the case, but signs point to Diana trying to help Alice by making something for her, but it horribly backfired on Alice. She reacted more to the first and last sentences in the flashback than the center, possibly meaning she blames Diana for making her a wreck and then "stealing" what was hers. Diana might not be a saint, but she is clearly not as bad as Alice makes her out to be. Diana doesn't come off as a type of person to intentionally spite someone and humiliate them in public. It seems you really want to paint Diana as this terrible person, when in reality she is confident and driven. She knows what she wants and she gets it using her skills. Other than that, if she did try that, someone would have found out about it,and Diana would be trying to blend, not stand out.
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Sneak Peak

Post  Ellen-Natalie on Sat May 02, 2015 8:07 am



"It was YOU! While everyone else is debating between Alice and Diana, YOU were the truly evil one all along!"
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  kanna172003 on Sat May 02, 2015 8:16 am

Renadt wrote:We don't really know if that is the case, but signs point to Diana trying to help Alice by making something for her, but it horribly backfired on Alice. She reacted more to the first and last sentences in the flashback than the center, possibly meaning she blames Diana for making her a wreck and then "stealing" what was hers. Diana might not be a saint, but she is clearly not as bad as Alice makes her out to be. Diana doesn't come off as a type of person to intentionally spite someone and humiliate them in public. It seems you really want to paint Diana as this terrible person, when in reality she is confident and driven. She knows what she wants and she gets it using her skills. Other than that, if she did try that, someone would have found out about it,and Diana would be trying to blend, not stand out.

I did not paint Diana as a terrible person, I'm just saying I believe that neither character is fully good or bad. And on that page where Diana appears to be making a comment about Alice's outfit, Alice looks mortified, implying that Diana is not paying her a compliment. And I don't think Diana designed the outfit. If I'm trying to paint Diana as a terrible person, wouldn't that imply that you are trying to paint her as some saint, incapable of wrong-doing?

The fact is, both arcs were seen from each character's point-of-view and in our own minds, we are the protagonist of our lives. I see no reason Diana wouldn't think differently. The fact that Ellen is making an arc from Alice's POV pretty much shows that there is more to Alice than what appears on the surface and while she seems shallow, we'll probably find that she is really not. At the moment, Alice just doesn't strike me an inherently bad person.

It's just like that arc with Vikki's roommates. When they first appeared, they just seemed to be stereotypical 'Molly Mormons" but as we saw more about them, especially in the latest arc about them, we find out there is more to them than what it first seemed. At first, Alice just seemed like a jealous, Queen Bee type but we may find out that there is a legit reason she seemed like that.
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Latrans on Sat May 02, 2015 10:38 pm

Ellen-Natalie wrote:"It was YOU! While everyone else is debating between Alice and Diana, YOU were the truly evil one all along!"

"But all I did was stand there with my lusty lanky llama looks..."

"That's all it takes!"
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Renadt on Sun May 03, 2015 3:48 am

There is a difference between Vikki's roomies and Alice. The roomies were not hostile toward Vikki, only something she could not understand, and it was only focused on them- it was all third person. This is where we see something more from Alice, but it also shows her own shortcomings. Even Diana's arc was in third person. Only one other comic has dug deeper into a character's thoughts, and that was Cat vs. Mrs. Poodlehund. Diana has not gone out of her way to shun anyone. The clothes she gave Alice might have been a mistake, but Alice sabotaged Diana's process pretty publicly. In my mind, Diana is a very real and honest person, while Alice comes off as fake, and that makes her worse in my eyes.
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  kanna172003 on Sun May 03, 2015 5:52 am

Renadt wrote:There is a difference between Vikki's roomies and Alice. The roomies were not hostile toward Vikki, only something she could not understand, and it was only focused on them- it was all third person. This is where we see something more from Alice, but it also shows her own shortcomings. Even Diana's arc was in third person. Only one other comic has dug deeper into a character's thoughts, and that was Cat vs. Mrs. Poodlehund. Diana has not gone out of her way to shun anyone. The clothes she gave Alice might have been a mistake, but Alice sabotaged Diana's process pretty publicly. In my mind, Diana is a very real and honest person, while Alice comes off as fake, and that makes her worse in my eyes.

Where is it implied that Diana gave the clothes to Alice?
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Ellen-Natalie on Sun May 03, 2015 8:52 am

Latrans wrote:my lusty lanky llama looks..."

*laugh* I couldn't resist...


As for the ongoing debate about Alice and Diana, I love reading how you guys view and interpret these characters! (I also love how you try your best to remain polite and respectful when the debates get heated - awesome as always Wink ) My hope for these girls is to show they're both good, evil, kind and selfish. Whether or not they deserve what happens to them in future arcs will be up to each reader to decide themselves. I'm looking forward it! Very Happy
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Mr. Cardinal on Sun May 03, 2015 4:20 pm

So when will Louis get his own arc? Rolling Eyes
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Page 418.2

Post  Ellen-Natalie on Mon May 04, 2015 12:30 am

Mr. Cardinal wrote:So when will Louis get his own arc? Rolling Eyes

I guess it will have to happen eventually...Smile

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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Rising Blue on Mon May 04, 2015 9:19 am

That brings to mind the rehearsal scene in Corpse Bride.

*does best Christopher Lee impression* LEARN YOUR VOWS!
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  kanna172003 on Mon May 04, 2015 10:36 am

I wouldn't be good at acting. Even I don't know what she means about making the characters theirs.
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Bayrain on Mon May 04, 2015 3:59 pm

Perfect time for Alice to make her move, or whatever she wants to do, I guess
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Renadt on Mon May 04, 2015 6:02 pm

Essentially, try to empathize with your characters. Try to find the reasons why your character would do these actions based on what you would do. This is the most famous of all teaching methods for stage- the Stanislavsky Method.

And the memory seems to imply that Diana at least had a hand in picking out Alice's clothes. The first and third lines imply those are Diana's lines. Hence why Alice reacted so strongly to them.

And yes, Kanna is a wonderful debater. She takes all into context before coming up with a response, and her responses carry the weight of thought (or at least I hope she's a she). She makes me think about what to say next, and it doesn't hurt that she is courteous as well. I only hope I am the same to her.
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Mr Ed on Mon May 04, 2015 7:54 pm

I am liking that stage director; especially in the last panel. (and I normally like my pig pulled too. :-))

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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  kanna172003 on Tue May 05, 2015 2:06 pm

Hey, I just realized that Louis is a literal "drama llama"!
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Rubin_West on Tue May 05, 2015 3:33 pm

This is Great! Alliteration for the win!  Very Happy

Latrans wrote:"But all I did was stand there with my lusty lanky llama looks..."

"That's all it takes!"

And This...   Very Happy

kanna172003 wrote:Hey, I just realized that Louis is a literal "drama llama"!

I am so grateful for the Forum! Reading it sure helps with the withdrawals between comics! cheers

Thanks to you all!

-Rubin.
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  Latrans on Tue May 05, 2015 6:10 pm

Withdrawals between comics? I somehow manage to get withdrawals between Patron updates... Embarassed
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

Post  kanna172003 on Tue May 05, 2015 9:52 pm

A bit off topic but does anyone else think FE would make an awesome cartoon?
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Re: Alice's Antipathy

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